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Author Topic: North Africa, British Faction  (Read 892 times)
Metternich
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« on: March 06, 2008, 07:51:14 PM »

This, is what I consider my masterpiece, at least in as far as an imaginary faction can be called a masterpiece  Tongue
This is my idea of a british faction for a north africa campaign.  The guy who posed about a new kind of tech tree, you should like this.

BUILDINGS AND GENERAL UNITS

Tier 1/2:
Buildings: Offensive Barracks (90mp, 10f), Defensive Barracks (90mp, 10f), Artillery Command (110mp, 15f), Command Quarters (110mp, 15f)
Units: Tommie Squad (300mp)
OB: Dingo Scout Car (220mp, 10f), Tommies w/sten (360mp)
DB: 2-pdr AT gun (190mp), Tommies w/Boys .55” AT rifle (340mp)
AC: Spotter (100mp), Tommies w/ rifle grenades (360mp)
CQ: Lieutenant (260mp, 10f), Tommies w/sergeant (370mp)
Upgrades:
DB: Entrenchment (50mp, 5f)

Tier 3:
Buildings: Fortification Command Center (220mp, 30f), Assault Command Center (220mp, 30f)
Units: Sappers (280mp), Bren Carrier (220mp, 15f)
FCC: 6-pdr AT gun (270mp), Captain (330mp)
ACC: Deacon AT gun (300mp, 40f), Humber Armored Car (300mp, 20f)
Upgrades:
FCC: Heavy Fortifications (130mp, 20f), Emplacements (200mp, 25f), Secured Resources (250mp, 30f)
ACC: Assault Officer (200mp, 10f), Air Recon (200mp, 40f)

Tier 4:
Buildings: Command Headquarters, Artillery (260mp, 50f); Command Headquarters, Armor (260mp, 50f)
Units: Crusader (420mp, 80f)
Artillery: M7 Priest (440mp, 70f)
Armor: Matilda II (450mp, 80f), Valentine (400mp, 70f)
Upgrades:
Artillery: Heavy Barrage (270mp, 35f), 25-pdr Gun Howitzer (300mp, 30f)
Armor: Advanced Tanks (200mp, 20f), Armor Reserves (240mp, 50f)

Note: A player must build 2 T1/2 buildings (One may only build 2 T1/2 buildings) in order to advance to T3.  One of the two T3 buildings must be built (only one may be built) to advance to T4.

DOCRINES

Intelligence Operations:

Left Side: Information

Contact (2): The location of all enemy structures is revealed.  Any emplacements and defenses are also revealed.
Double Agent (3): All enemy knowledge is temporarily made available (200mp, 50a).  The fog of war vanishes and cloaked units are revealed.  The enemy is unaware of this.
Ultra (4): All communications between the enemy team members is made available for the remainder of the game.

Right Side: Misinformation

Field Officers (1): A field intelligence officer may be attached to any infantry squad (50a).  Squads with officers attached do not appear on the enemy’s mini/tac-map.
False Maps (4): The opponent’s mini/tac-map may be made black, though the relative locations of enemy and friendly units will still appear.  It is filled in as his squads in the field are able to see the locations (100mp, 100a).
False Intelligence (4): You may engage an enemy team member in a conversation using his ally’s handle (150mp, 75a).  For the duration [about 1.5 min?] of the ability, your opponent cannot contact his ally.  Requires Ultra.

Defense Tactics:

Left Side: Camouflage

Optical Cover (1): Units in cover will passively camouflage when not moving after a short time.
Camouflage (3): All infantry may camouflage at will for a cost in movement speed.
Ambush Tactics (3): AT guns may be camouflaged and ordered to hold fire.  An ambush bonus is received when the first shell hits the tank.

Right Side: Experienced Soldiers

Hardened Infantry (2): Infantry receive defensive bonuses in friendly territory.
Hold Ground (2): Infantry may be ordered to ‘hold ground.’  All infantry squads in hold ground stance receive heavy cover bonuses, but cannot move while the ability is active (35a).
Optimum Range (3): 6-pdr AT guns (includes deacon and tank mounted guns) have a 30% chance of getting an instant kill critical hit if they are ordered to hold fire until the enemy enters optimum range (15).  The 2-pdr has an optimum range of 10 and has a 10% chance for a critical.

Commonwealth Forces:

Left Side: ANZAC Support

ANZAC Infantry (2): Call in a squad of ANZAC heavy infantry (380mp)
Veteran Soldiers (2): ANZAC infantry are less vulnerable to enemy armor and can camouflage in cover.
M3 Grant (3): Call in an M3 Grant light tank (360mp)

Right Side: Popular Support

Manpower Increase (1): Trade 40f for 800mp
Foreign Soldiers (1): Population cap is increased by 30%
Volunteers (3): Call in a squad of volunteers from all corners of the empire that costs no population cap (330mp).

UNITS

Tommie Squad: Versatile infantry squad that can be upgraded with a number of enhancing weapons and skills and is the basis for a number of building specific upgrades.  My build 1/2 and 3rd tier buildings.
Upgrades: Recon Squad (35a), Bren Gun (75a), Sten (built at OB), Boys .55” AT rifle (DB), Rifle Grenades (AC), Sergeant (CQ).

Dingo Scout Car: Light scout vehicle with the ability to capture points.  Effective against infantry and light vehicles.
Upgrades: Boys .55” AT rifle (70a)

2-pdr AT Gun: Light AT gun which is highly inadequate for dealing with armor, but is mobile and capable of engaging lighter vehicles and armored cars.
Upgrades: NONE

Spotter: Artillery officer who can call in mortar and later heavy artillery barrages on a target (100a).  Has a long sight radius and can detect camouflaged units.
Upgrades: NONE

Lieutenant: Officer who inspires troops around him and can call for heroic charges. 
Upgrades: NONE

Sappers: Heavy repair and construction unit.  May build bunkers, sand bags, and barbed wire.  Only Sappers may build 4th tier base structures.
Upgrades: Demo Charges (100a), Advanced Repair (50a)

Bren Carrier: Medium troop transport.  Lightly armored and armed with a .303 bren gun.
Upgrades: MMG Carrier (50a)

6-pdr AT Gun: Heavy AT gun (57mm).  Capable of engaging enemy tanks and other vehicles.
Upgrades: NONE

Captain: Senior officer who provides defensive bonuses to troops under his influence and who may oversee the construction of trenches and embankments.
Upgrades: Promotion (70a)

Deacon Mobile AT Gun: A 6-pdr AT gun on tracks.  More mobile, but more vulnerable and more expensive than the wheeled version.
Upgrades: NONE

Humber Armored Car: Heavy armored car with excellent mobility.  Armed with a 37mm main gun and a 7.92mm Besa MG.  Effective against infantry, light vehicles, and other armored cars.
Upgrades: NONE

Crusader: Fast moving medium tank with decent armor but a weak gun unless upgraded.
Upgrades: 6-pdr main gun (110a)

M7 Priest: Mobile artillery 105mm howitzer.
Upgrades: NONE

Matilda II: Heavily armored, but poorly armed infantry tank.  Slow moving, but effective at supporting infantry.
Upgrades: NONE

Valentine: Heavily armored, but poorly armed infantry tank that is much cheaper than the Matilda II, but also slow.
Upgrades: 6-pdr Main Gun (110a)

25-pdr Gun Howitzer: Same howitzer as the Brits have in OF, but no emplacement around it.
Upgrades: NONE

M5 Stewart: An American light tank widely exported to the commonwealth.  Same as Stewart of OF.
Upgrades: NONE

M4 Sherman: Medium tank.  Poorly armed and armored for its class, but cheap.  Effective against infantry and light armor.
Upgrades: .50 Cal Gunner (50a)

ANZAC Infantry: Tough, effective infantry.  Can be extensively upgraded to be even more effective.
Upgrades: Bren Gun (75a), Rifle Grenades (75a), Boys .55” AT Rifle (70a)

M3 Grant: Light tank exported to the commonwealth and used extensively by Australian forces.  Lightly armed and armored, but fast and cheap.
Upgrades: NONE

Volunteers: Light, poorly armed and trained infantry men.  Cheap and have a pop cap cost of 0.
Upgrades: NONE

UPGRADES

Entrenchment: Allows tommies to build trenches (free) and Vickers MG nests (200mp, 15f).
Heavy Fortifications: Bunkers, emplacements, sand bags, barbed wire, and embankments have their hit-points doubled.
Emplacements: Sappers may build a ring of sandbags around a depression which can be garrisoned by infantry or AT guns for defensive bonuses.  The 25-pdr may be built in emplacements as well.
Secured Resources: resource output from all sectors is increased as if an observation post were placed on it.
Assault Officers: The Lieutenant can call for heroic charges and all infantry under his command are more resistant to pin and take less damage while moving.
Air Recon: A scout plane may be called in on any location to reveal the map in that area (50a).
Heavy Barrage: The artillery barrage called in by the spotter is upgraded to a heavy artillery barrage instead of the mortar barrage.
25-pdr Howitzer: Allows sappers to deploy the 25-pdr (400mp, 70f).
Advanced Tanks: Allows the valentine tank to be built.
Armor Reserves: Allows the player to call in an off map force of 2 M4 Shermans (900mp)
Recon Squad: Increases the movement rate, sight radius, and capping speed of the squad.  It is the base infantry squad.
Bren Gun: LMG which can provide excellent fire power to the troops using it.  Cannot button enemy vehicles.  2 per squad.
Sten Gun: Only available through the Offensive Barracks.  Provides excellent close range firepower at the cost of long range power.  The entire squad.
Boys .55” AT Rifle: Provides the squad with anti-vehicle fire power, though it is ineffective against heavier armor.  Very accurate and has a 2% chance of getting a critical hit.  Only available at the Defensive Barracks and forces the squad to stop when in use.  2 per squad.
Rifle Grenades: Only available through the Artillery Command.  3 squad members are equipped with long range grenade launchers.  Same as OF.
Sergeant: Only available through the command quarters.  The Tommie squad receives and extra member who is a sgt.  Increases the capping speed of the squad, movement rate, resistance to pin, and accuracy.
Demo Charges: Allows the sapper squad to plant demolitions on buildings and bridges (75a).
Advanced Repair: Increases the repair rate of the sapper squad.
MMG Carrier: Upgrades the Bren Carrier with an additional MMG for increased fire power, but it can no longer carry infantry.
Promotion: Promotes the captain to major.  All bonuses are increased and he may call in an artillery barrage (100a) (light unless the heavy barrage upgrade has been researched).
6-pdr Main Gun: Upgrades the tank from a 2-pdr to a 6-pdr main gun for increased power against infantry and armor.

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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
-Otto von Bismarck
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 08:43:43 AM »

I like the idea of the whole mind game you can play as the brits, but it seems like it would be pretty ineffective, especially since if you were trying to lure someone into an ambush, the person you were posing as could team chat and say hey thats not me talking.
The Stand ground ability seems kinda good, but could you use it anywhere, as in the middle of a neg cover road or bog?
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Metternich
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 02:24:52 PM »

The person who you are talking to becomes isolated from the rest of the chat, so he can only talk to you and cant receive messages from anyone but you.

Yes, stand ground could be used anywhere, but it would make the unit immobile and would cost 35 ammo, so if the front moves, he just wasted ammo and has a unit out of commission until the ability is over.  It is kind of like locking down a P4.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
-Otto von Bismarck
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 04:22:58 PM »

your description of the m4 sherman and M3 grant isn't accurate for the african campaign. Compared to the PanzerIII and the early version of the panzerIV the sherman was a very good tank. 

the M3 grant it the same gun and armor as the sherman, but it lack a turret for the 75mm.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 04:38:52 PM by Firesparks » Logged
Metternich
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2008, 11:16:46 PM »

Early shermans were poor tanks as well.  They recieved a slight increase in armor, an up gun, and specialized 'wet storage' for the ammo by the time they were deployed in Europe.  In africa, the shermans were generally inadequate for dealing with the 'mark 4 special' and well they would probably defeat a Panzer III, it would still largely come down to who got the first shot off.

The Grant was essentially a stug with a high profile and weak armor.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 07:57:30 AM »

Quote
False Intelligence (4): You may engage an enemy team member in a conversation using his ally’s handle (150mp, 75a).  For the duration [about 1.5 min?] of the ability, your opponent cannot contact his ally.  Requires Ultra.
This ability gonna turn off ts/vent?
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Metternich
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 02:48:41 PM »

No, so it would be a risk.

It would be like the two generals knowing eachother and recognizing that the dispatch was a fake.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2008, 01:37:41 PM »

So we have ability that wont work in AT above lv 3.
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Metternich
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2008, 09:29:18 PM »

Basically.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
-Otto von Bismarck
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2008, 06:30:32 PM »

Early shermans were poor tanks as well.  They recieved a slight increase in armor, an up gun, and specialized 'wet storage' for the ammo by the time they were deployed in Europe.  In africa, the shermans were generally inadequate for dealing with the 'mark 4 special' and well they would probably defeat a Panzer III, it would still largely come down to who got the first shot off.

The Grant was essentially a stug with a high profile and weak armor.

the sherman didn't receive any upgun or uparmor in the 2 year between its introduction in african and the deployment in normandy, which was exactly the reason for the poor reputation it received in normandy. 

If sherman was a "poor tank", then early pzIV and pzIII was even worst tank.

Even the pzIV G model only had a frontal armor 50mm, and some with 80mm. The 50mm thickness was not enough to protect against even the 75mm m3, which was the exact reason why the german thickened it to 80mm in the later G and standardize in the H model.  The mkIV special(f2 model) was an early upgun to the newer 75m l43, but the armor was still not thick enough (50mm at 10 degree) to gain dominance.

early pzIII model had the 50mm L42 and 50mm ~0 degree of armor, which fared poorly against the sherman's 50mm@45degree and the 75mm m3. The odds even up a bit with the later J model but it was still a even playing field.

The grant had almost identical armor and gun as the sherman; grant's main weakness was the lack of turret. 50mm of armor was not weak during the african campaign.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 06:18:08 PM by Firesparks » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2008, 11:42:56 PM »

My memory may have been mistaken about the increase in armor, but the sherman DID receive an upgun.

And, by the end of the campaign, 50mm was weak.  The sherman was never particularly liked by its crews and while it was superior to the Panzer III and about equal to Panzer IV's past the F model, it did have some disturbing problems that were fixed regarding its ammo storage.  German tanks were better armed and equivalently armored (the high velocity 75mm on the PIV) and british tanks had considerably better protection.  Late in the campaign, the germans even delivered a few tigers to North Africa, which woefully outgunned anything the allies had.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
-Otto von Bismarck
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 03:46:19 AM »

And this is the african campaign description we're talking about. The sherman will be a good tank unless the german pick armor Regiment; even then the sherman will still be able to handle the 50mm/J PZIII J and the PZIV G.

The tiger would the same as the KT in stock: super heavy tank that's heavier armed and armored then anything in the game.
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 01:55:33 PM »

Yeah, if you look at my descriptions for the PIV and PIII of the German Faction which would be facing it you will see that they too are described as being poorly armed except with the armor regiment upgrades.  So, yes, the description of the sherman is partially incorrect in that for the time it was not horribly undergunned or underarmored.  However, the early low velocity gun on the sherman was not able to effectively penetrate the panzer IV at range.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
-Otto von Bismarck
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 07:25:34 PM »

Yeah, if you look at my descriptions for the PIV and PIII of the German Faction which would be facing it you will see that they too are described as being poorly armed except with the armor regiment upgrades.  So, yes, the description of the sherman is partially incorrect in that for the time it was not horribly undergunned or underarmored.  However, the early low velocity gun on the sherman was not able to effectively penetrate the panzer IV at range.

Quote
Panzer III: Medium panzer effective at dealing with enemy vehicles.  Initially armed only with a 37mm main gun and 2 MG 34’s.
Upgrades: 50mm L/42 Main Gun (85a, 10f), 50mm L/60 Main Gun (Armor Reg. only) (Free).

Panzer IV: Medium panzer effective at dealing both with enemy light armor and infantry.  Initially armed with the short 75mm L/24 KwK 37 and 2 MG 34’s.
Upgrades: 75mm KwK 40 L/43 (armor reg. only) (100a).
you don't really give the sense that the PanzerIII and PanzerIV were poorly armed, unless you assume everyone know that the 37mm and the 75mm L/24 were weak guns. Even the 50mm L/42 would had trouble.

the 75mm m3 was enough to deal with the early 50mm armor on the PanzerIV up to 1500 meter. It's not until the later uparmor to 80mm when the 75mm m3 start facing touble.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 07:28:33 PM by Firesparks » Logged
Metternich
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 07:34:54 PM »

I say effective against vehicles and effective against infantry and light vehicles respectively.  Neither is described as being good against armor.
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Nicht durch Reden und Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden — das ist der große Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen — sondern durch Eisen und Blut.
-Otto von Bismarck
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